Rumor: PS4 runs at 1.84 teraflops, next Xbox at 1.23 - Gematsu
Rumor: PS4 runs at 1.84 teraflops, next Xbox at 1.23
posted on 01.17.13 at 10:48 AM EST by (@salromano)
But new Xbox has double the RAM, claims source.

PlayStation 4 will have a run-capability of 1.84 teraflops and the next Xbox a run-capability of 1.23 teraflops, developer sources have reportedly told VG247 after meetings at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas last week.

The numbers would mean PlayStation 4 will have 33 percent more computational power than the next Xbox.

However, the site has been told that the next Xbox is has the advantage in RAM. PlayStation 4 will have 4 gigabytes of RAM, with 1 gigabyte reserved for OS, security, and apps, while the next Xbox will have 8 gigabytes of RAM, with 3 gigabytes reserved for OS, security, and apps.

Both systems will supposedly be able to read 100 gigabyte Blu-ray discs.

In terms of graphics, the next Xbox is said to be based on the Radeon HD 8770 GPU, while PlayStation 4 has been previously rumored to be based on AMD’s A10 APU.

Both systems have been rumored for E3 or near-E3 reveals.

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  • rockman29

    Flops are not a measure of performance. They are a measure of a specific type of computation. The RSX had 1.8 TF of computational power, but it is not as powerful as a 1 TF AMD GPU from last year.

    Total RAM is not the full story.******

    ******Bandwidth to RAM is just as important. The current rumours peg 8 GB of RAM fo 720, but only 1.04 GB/s accessible due to using DDR3/4 1600 MHz if it is going to use a 256-bit bus. So in 1 second it can access 1/8th of it’s RAM (1 GB out of 8 GB).

    4 GB of RAM in PS4 is rumoured to be GDDR5 on a 512-bit bus, which would allow PS4 to access >3GB/s of RAM. So in 1 second it can access 75% of it’s total available RAM (3 GB of 4 GB).

    Which one is more useful for games? An optimally accessible fast RAM.

    Which one is more useful for running lots of software like a W8 platform? 8 GB of slower RAM.

    PS4 is also rumoured to use stacked chips which reduces power consumption and decreases latency.

    Anyway, this is all rumours.

    Don’t run away with numbers anyway yet. Commenters, don’t jump the gun!

    We really don’t know much at all. <–Most important part of my post is this disclaimer

    • Raiyu

      Nice little write up and great explanation.

    • Yuenku

      If it weren’t for your post, I was about to say “The hell is a teraflop?!??”

    • Rafi

      Dat knowledge, PC gamer i guess ?

      Back to the topic, if that spec can contain GTX780 or HD8970 then we can play all games based from Unreal 4 Engine or Agni’s Philosophy on 1080p at 60FPS even with cinematic movie effect like Ray-Tracing and Tessellation. The main problem is the cost and too power consuming that maybe we will get our head exploded by the high numbers of bill.

      • Raiyu

        I don’t think that would be possible since by the time those come out, they would have sent out final dev kits.

        • Rafi

          I know but somehow i think the prototype GPU which will appear on the market can be notified prior to the MS or Sony.

          • rockman29

            Those parts are still too expensive though, Rafi.

            They have massive transistor counts and massive chips.

            It’s not feasible to produce massive chips with so many transistors.

            Chips also are built with risk of errors, and the larger chip that is the more chance more part of the chip has those errors. Larger chips not only have higher cost because of being bigger but also being harder to make.

            The market value of a 670 or 7970 is like $399, which is way out of scope for the consoles. The heat produced and power consumption could not be handled.

      • rockman29

        I play PC and PS3, though that’s not why I would know this.

        To learn is to read more than you write. I just made that up. But I read a lot and that’s the only way to learn things.

        Also there’s no way in heck there is going to be a GTX780 or HD8970 or equivalent in the PS4/720. It’s way too expensive to put a top end part from the same year as release. And the 780 or 8970 desktop cards aren’t out yet.

        What you should be expecting is something equivalent of a mobile card, or something of a midrange card from a generation that has already been released (like the 7xxx AMD series for desktop or 8xxx upcoming series of mobile chips which are repackaged 7xxx desktop series).

        Remember consoles don’t draw as much power as gaming PCs. Size and cost restrictions apply a lot more than when someone builds a $800 desktop (without an OS or monitor) to get that 670 or 680 level performance.

      • rockman29

        @Agni’s: We may be approaching that level of fidelity in games, but not in the way Agni’s demo did it.

        Agni’s had a lot more power going into it: GTX 680, i7 3770K @ 3.5 GHz, and 32 GB RAM.

        Suffice to say the way Agni’s was running on PC is not the same way it’s going to be running on consoles next gen.

        However, that’s not to say the same ‘visuals’ cannot be attained, only that it won’t be in the same fidelity like 16xAA or anything like Agni’s was. Agni’s wasn’t running any game logic (or maybe even audio) so keep that in mind as well.

        That PC is A LOT more powerful than the next consoles will be, but a PC has to manage the game running within the OS environment and a lot of other things. So you can still be optimistic about next gen blowing you away visually.

    • You sir… You’ve explained better than what I would have done so…. You deserved a thumbs up….

    • Moderator – So you return from being banned with a new account only to insult someone? Looks like you need more away time.

  • 8GB seems ok for MS and SONY sounds about right with 4GB… hmm eh time will tell. I am simply interested in VR next gen and GDC will be all about that according to Valve. The Oculust Rift works with anything that can do 720p and 1080p using HDMI out so… xD man I really doubt people will upgrade so fast to next gen…

  • no game will be 100 gigs, the companies would go out of business,. Less than 1 percent of games are 50 gigs now

    • Guest

      That would be insane.. the only way that would be possible is with add ons like DLC and 4K UHD files maybe : ]

    • Lots of DLC ^_^

    • 浪黒雷 (ro-kurorai)

      I beg to differ. Almost any PS3 exclusive either fills one or two layers on the BD. Heck, even the Japanese version of Ni no Kuni is 18 GB! The other aspect to keep in mind are the higher resolutions and consequently much higher resolved textures. At least multi platform games won’t have horrendously compressed FMVs on PS4 as is the case with 99% of multiplat games right now. PS3 exclusives also feature loss-less audio which takes up a bunch of Gigs.

      So generally your comment might be valid for multiplats but I would appreciate my games not being compromised by MS’s meager optical discs again.

      • barely any of them do actually.

      • besides I own quite a few PS3 games that use a Dual Layer BD.
        Those are a few games that use a 50 GB disc, and no Vampire Dragon companies wouldn’t go out of business with 100 GB games so long as they are making enough sales per game to be able to cover all development costs, paying the employees, and bills required for the computers to be able to develop these games in the first place.

        • and by computers I’m talking Electricity to power the machines, and any other business based stuff.

      • Belenger

        And the irony point on those games is that MGS4 includes an online mode that costs about 10gb, FFXIII is basically 7gb and 31 of just videos, heck the ending credits, just the white lines with the small video box is just 6gb, it’s videos that go for the size in those double layer BD games with few exceptions like MGS4 that actually uses more raw data than FMVs.

    • Rafi

      If the game run native at 4K with engine like id Tech 5, then it will have even more that 100GB.

    • Bobo Fango

      some ps3 games use prerendered videos instead of in-game cutscenes to reduce load times and increase quality. this can up the game size considerably. Now, rendered scenes at 4k…. oh lawd.

      they must also be looking ahead to supporting 4K movies as well.

      • 4k tvs are 10-15 years away, and they dont add anything

        Most retail games are under 20 gigs.

        100 gigs? the cost would kill a company. thats not increasing quality

        • Really I wouldn’t be so sure about that.
          As long as Games make good sales to break even they’ll be fine, and besides look at a lot of Japanese Companies they don’t just sell games on console there are some like Square-Enix who sell Mobile games, and games on 3DS & PS VITA for example. another example of a company who sells portable games is level-5. They are not only known for Dark Cloud, and Rogue Galaxy but they also make the professor Layton games which I hear are fun games.

          • Barely any games are breaking even now. Most japanese games do because of the low budges.

        • AdamBoy64

          I personally think they’re probably about 5 years away – they’ll start to be prevalent around the time of the PS5 / Next-next gen.

          But yeah, I don’t think the PS4 or Xbox Loop/Next
          will render in 4K.

          • Even hirai said 10-15 years away. You think you know more than the president of sony? how arrogant are you.

            • AdamBoy64

              They’re only $20K now for like 84 inches. In 5 years time it’s not much of a stretch at all to think they’ll be $3 or 4K for ~50 inches.

              It seems a bit of an odd statement to say that they won’t be mainstream till 2023. But yeah, I’m happy for him to say what he likes.

            • AdamBoy64

              I read that comment from Kaz Hirai – although he didn’t specify that 4K TV’s are 10 years away (which, well, they’re here now), he did say that it could take several years to a decade to catch on – which I take that to mean, become dominant in the market – which I think is true.

              I would have thought closer to several than 10.

              The timing could depend on how much 4K content is available over the next few years.

            • Bobo Fango

              10-15 years? lol. by that time, we will have quantum computers. technology advances much more quickly than that.

    • rockman29

      There is a possibility of data replication on a disc to push games over 50 GB.

      There is also possibility of simply using higher quality assets compared to this gen, rather than drastically increasing the time spent on making said art.

      There are many more factors to consider I’m sure when talking about disc size.

      Max Payne 3 is a huge game on disc, yet doesn’t necessarily have the appearance of looking that amazing, for example.

      • DrForbidden

        I agree with your points about the assets and other factors playing a role in the final size of the game on disc. However, I also agree with Vampire Dragon’s points that no developer is going to want to spend the extra money (and time IS money) to fill out video games to more than 50GB. Games have, in general, been getting shorter, not longer, and this is mostly true even for PS3 exclusives. There really aren’t that many current gen games that require more than 40 hours to complete (and I’m not talking about 100% completion, either) compared to the previous gen. Shorter games generally translate into less data.

        I don’t know where the problem lies, exactly, or where the shift started, but as graphics got better and more refined, the actual length of the games got shorter. I suspect a lot of it has to do with development costs and timeframe, and the problem is possibly exacerbated by requiring a higher sales margin in order to break even. Developers are less willing to take risks with new IPs and resort more and more to relying on franchise sequels and rip-off DLCs. Consistently, on-disc content is often cut and the game is shortened in order to lower costs. If the current trend in development and game sales continue, there is no reason to think that next-generation games will see 100GB or even 50GB releases, with very few exceptions.

  • Potionzmaster

    Hmm, March/May/E3 can’t come soon enough!

  • Bean Chea

    Gaming is a costly hobbie. But I feel the most demanding issue for me is the time sink factor, as I like to finish & Plat. my games. I have all of this gens consoles (except for the WiiU), a DSi, & a Vita. There are also about 30 (retail & PSN, Live) titles I need to go through. The PS4 is my last console. The titles I own now are very selective to my tastes (to which I’ll wait for a title that really interests me before I purchase the PS4, while I’ve bought my current consoles during launch week), so I’m content in keeping 18 month old games till they’re Plat’ed. I own a Note 2 & intend to keep it for 2-3 years.

    Anyone, slowing down on their gaming hobbie soon? Or is it strong as ever, where you’ll trade the old for the new… generation after next gen.?

    • RedWolfe

      Surprised no one responded to this.

      Anyway, this has been something I’ve been struggling with lately as well, more so now because I started working. As I got older my gaming tastes have expanded as well and I find myself interested in many of the releases per year and now that I have somewhat of a disposable income, I find myself buying games and either leaving them sealed with the intent of playing them eventually or opening them and only playing a little bit because I’m still working on another title.

      I too am somewhat of a completionist with 20 plats under my belt and it irks me too see so many games on my list recently with odd trophy percentages but recently I’ve been learning how to just let it go because if I don’t, I’ll never be able to get through everything (especially RPGs).

      Also, to answer your question, I don’t think (read: hope) that it will ever come to the point where I drop gaming completely as it’s something that’s been apart of me for a good 80% of my life. I think most people who drop it usually do it much sooner (I’m 21) but there’s no telling what obligations could show up further down the line. Even then, I don’t think I could drop it but my habits will definitely have to change. I won’t be able to search every nook and cranny anymore and may have to settle for just simply completing a game and moving on.

  • Ramza Beoulve

    Ha the time is comein closer to add to my many game system XD

  • PrinceHeir

    can’t wait for the reveal :D

    100GB BD discs!!!!!

    hopefully a faster reader speed as well!!!

    • rockman29

      I’m hoping for 6x or 8x BD drives.

      • Pyrofrost

        Fuck that, 16x or 24x

  • Prodigy-X

    Ram part seems fake.

  • The thing that still irks me about this rumor is MS supporting Blu-ray. I’ll believe that when I see it.

    • DrForbidden

      Hmm. I don’t think that Microsoft has a choice in the matter. BD is the current standard for HD movies. MS managed to avoid going the route with the 360, but if they continue to defy the market by making a next gen console which can’t play BD films, it would be a fatal miscalculation. Consumers WANT consoles that can also play movies, and if MS wants to succeed, they MUST make their next console BD-compatible.

      • It still wouldn’t surprise me if MS decided to make a new format of there own instead of supporting Blu-Ray. Doing so means they are helping support the competition.

        • AdamBoy64

          In saying that – Microsoft are competing with Sony Computer Entertainment, rather than Sony’s Video division.
          They are two different arms of Sony Corporation.

          Kind of like Apple has been using Samsung chips in their iPhones for years – but their mobile divisions are in direct competition.

          • I see your point here. I just can’t see the same thing with MS and Blu-ray support though.

            I might be incorrect, but you don’t see any Samsung logos or anything like that on the back of iPhone boxes.

            Think about MS supporting Blu-ray, having that Blu-ray Disc logo on every game box, on every game disc.

            I don’t see Sony agreeing to any contract deal where MS would not have to use the logo. It would be a constant reminder that Sony is providing a key piece to the new Xbox.

            I’m sure Sony gets a small cut on everything Blu-ray related. Sure, Samsung might actually make a small profit each time Apple sells an iPhone or something. That doesn’t apply to software though.

            Every physical copy game on the new Xbox would be using Blu-ray. I’m going to guess that means Sony still gets a small cut of the profit here.

            I’m no business professional. When I add all of this up in my head though. I have a hard time seeing a scenario where both sides agree to a deal and Blu-ray support on Xbox becomes a reality.

            I suppose my faith in big wig corporate people biting the bullet for the sake of the customer is pretty thin.

            • So, the post above from 浪黒雷 (ro-kurorai) opened my eyes to a different solution to all of this.

              I wasn’t aware that the WiiU was using a special Proprietary Blu-Ray Disc. I didn’t think about that type of deal.

              While that is interesting, and something I could see MS doing, it still doesn’t fix the compatibility problem.

              Sure, it could fix the things I mentioned in regards to having the logo on the box and disc, but it still likely requires them to agree to a deal with Sony.

              It sorta fits with my original comment though. It’s sorta like finding a new format. It still means the next xbox would likely only play next xbox games, and nothing else.

              I have a hard time believing Sony lets Microsoft play Blu-ray movies on the new xbox without some kind of restriction. I’d wager they would require a logo to appear or something. Nintendo apparently didn’t want to agree to that, so they decided to axe traditional Blu-Ray support on the WiiU. (For now.) Something tells me this type of thing might happen again with the next xbox.

        • DrForbidden

          It’s possible, but MS is primarily a software company. Their hardware range is pretty limited. Going up against an experienced juggernaut of a tech and consumer electronics company like Sony by launching a format war probably wouldn’t be wise, IMO. Of course, MS is probably banking more on digital distribution in the long run, but if they intend to have the next xbox be an all-round entertainment console, BD-compatibility is integral.

          • I agree with you, but I just don’t see it happening. Microsoft has denied reports, talked about the digital future, and changed the subject so many times when asked about supporting Blu-ray.

            Are they just being hard headed? Yes, I think so.

            Why? They might still be sour about the fate of HD-DVD. Who knows? I put my money on money lol, if that makes sense.

            You said BD compatibility is integral. I very much agree, but think about this…

            The marketing of the 360 has changed quite a bit over the years. When they first launched, it was all about hardcore games. This is the new home of the hardcore gamer, etc.

            They started to move down a more casual path in the last few years, especially with the launch of kinect.

            Right now, they try to sell the current Xbox as an all around entertainment console, and they will probably continue down this path with the next Xbox. (Just like you mentioned.)

            All of this has one thing in common. Despite the 360 being out for years, they still sell models that don’t include a real hard drive.

            I think most would agree, having a hard drive is very important. If you really want to play games on the 360, having a HDD is integral.

            I’m not so sure they care about customer convience so much. I had to buy a hard drive for my 360, I didn’t have space for much of anything without it.

            (Very similar scenario with Nintendo and the Wii U hard drives. Somewhat similar scenario in regards to Sony and Vita memory cards. Customer convince is not always at the top of the list unfortunately.)

            Could they put out some kind of add-on thing that supports it? I suppose… but I doubt it. Going to go into a bit more detail on that with my response to Adam.

            (I appreciate the response though. Interesting topic to discuss.)

            • DrForbidden

              Those are good points. I dunno. Perhaps I’m assigning too much credit to MS. HD-DVD was a Toshiba technology, and MS backed it because it was a rival to BD. It didn’t turn out well for them. I’m hoping they learned their lesson and swallowed their pride to realise that collaborations and tech-licensing are essential in this day and age. Brands may be competitors, but they all often use common components and such relationships are usually mutually-beneficial. The BD format is here to stay, and MS’s refusal to support it won’t change a damn thing about that, while at the same time turning off potential buyers of their new console.
              On the other hand, it appears that MS isn’t hurting as much as Sony in this recession, so who knows? :)

              • I agree. I really hope they find a way to work a deal out with Sony. The last thing we really need is more proprietary junk. I think supporting what is most convenient for the customer should be at the top of the list. The big companies don’t always agree though.

                And like I mentioned in my above reply, along with a few others. Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, etc. So many different companies choose the proprietary route over consumer convenience. It’s not just MS that occasionally makes consumers pay for stuff that should already be included.

                Just look at 3D TVs. Isn’t it a bit ridiculous how most of them use different sets of 3D glasses? I think it is. Some TV sets will only support a specific set of glasses. Sometimes these special glasses can cost crazy amounts of money. Why should we have to pay so much for the glasses? In fact, they really should be included with 3D TVs. If you buy a 3D TV, you obviously want to use the 3D.

                Sure, sometimes good deals pop up, and they throw in the glasses as a bonus or something. Those deals usually sell very well, because customers don’t want to have to pay extra just to use the 3D. Making customers pay extra for the glasses is shitty.

  • LordKaiser

    I don’t feel so enthusiastic about a next gen anymore. I don’t feel the same about PS3 compared to how I felt last gen with the PS2. IMO the PS2 was Sony’s best console.

    • Pyrofrost

      I completely agree. I really feel the gaming industry needs to take a step back from realism. They need to re-focus on providing a compelling experience, full of imagination. Instead we get mostly the opposite :(

      I guess that’s what our hobby gets for not staying niche and becoming a multi-billion dollar business.

    • ddsfan2

      Can’t argue with that…

      For me, the issue is that none of the home consoles this gen, individually or combined, have the level of quality Japanese development that the PS1 or PS2 had almost immediately… Seems like a lot of that talent pool moved to handhelds, so there are fewer notable releases.

      I like the PS3 a lot, but it is no PS2, at least in my mind.

  • Both systems read Blu-Ray discs?
    Microsoft isn’t in the Blu Ray corporation… How can they get Blu Ray for the next Xbox?

    • Right, they would have to support Sony by using the Blu-Ray format.

      • 浪黒雷 (ro-kurorai)

        Your point being? As far as I am aware MS owns Skype, still didn’t stop Sony from including it on Vita. It simply means MS will have to swallow their pride and pay their competitor up (^-^)v

        WiiU also uses SL-BluRay discs. Ninty just came up with a different name for it.

        • WiiU really uses Blu-ray? I wasn’t aware of that. That does surprise me.

          Skype is one thing, but I go into detail on my thoughts about Blu-ray support on Xbox below.

          Edit: Quick google search shows that the Wii U doesn’t play Blu-ray movies. I still think that is a big loss.

          • 浪黒雷 (ro-kurorai)

            Well, while PS3 has a fully featured BluRay player WiiU only uses the disc format. Kk, missed your section below, checking it out asap.

    • 浪黒雷 (ro-kurorai)

      It’s just a question of licensing fees. MS’s pride might suffer a little but they can still use the format, Nintendo are doing the same with WiiU (albeit using a different name and SL-discs only).
      Sony are a member of the BD-association but they are not solely entitled to decide which prospective licencees to support/ decline.

      • Since Microsoft isn’t in that association list, I can imagine Microsoft having a hard time deciding….

        Nintendo is clever at going after Panasonic for their discs since they are part of the BD-association….

  • YangTerlupakan

    “…Both systems will supposedly be able to read 100 gigabyte Blu-ray discs…..”

    i remember read articel in gamespot, says that microsoft will never use blu-ray disc because is not so much friendly, also rumor says m$ is plan to use memory storage instead using disc for next box
    so now is going change right now????

  • EspadaKiller

    Seriously doubt that the PS4 will have half the amount of RAM that the next Xbox has. I’m guessing that Sony has already learned their mistake in this gen, RAM is a common issue on developing games which restricted developers A LOT.