Consider this the world’s permanent place of a residence — a place to the discuss the environment and such other things. Naturally, topics will overlap, so don’t worry about going “off-topic”.
Not to limit discussion, I will not be posting user comments in these particular seminars. In other words, you can either re-iterate an idea posted in previous seminars, or introduce a new concept without fear of derailing previous discussions.
As the discussion progresses, I’ll comment, adding relevant user comments from previous seminars. I’ll be quoting them, of course.
Remember, this isn’t necessarily all about the world’s physicality. It can be about symbolism — is the world an allegory? Or, for example, you might want to discuss its inhabitants, its wildlife or its scientific elements. Political considerations might come into play, for example.
Hopefully, this will be an improved method for discussion — no longer should we have to contend with the linearity of the previous format.
Thanks, designers.
Before I post any further, don’t be shy with this. Stream of consciousness works well when it comes to generating ideas.
I’ve always loved game worlds with a clear Duality. Like that Zelda game on the Wii, or something even like Okami where you see the world in chaos and then see it in peace. But thats prolly due to personal likings. i always to go for contrasting colors when creating characters or coloring stuff.
Kind of like Pop ’08? I loved that game’s world. Looked stunning. It was vast, too.
@Adam: Ah yes indeed, That world was great and colorful. But also from the PoP games, I always loved the past and present idea in Warrior Wihin. It joined the idea of duality and time stories (my other favourite element of any story) very well and was a fantastic world (if you looked past all the emo-ness). Not as colorful and bright as PoP ’08 but interesting to see the past and present versions of the world.
Another game world that used time manipulation well was definitely Dark Cloud 2. How what you do in the past will affect the future of the games world (although it was pretty scripted) was always a nice idea to me.
If you’re going the time traveling and consequential route, Chrono Trigger is very easy to cite as an example.
I like the duality scheme in games too. Expounding on the previous topic of a elemental spirit for a hero, a duality scheme involving the real world and the spirit world could be plausible. The real world would operate on the laws of science. While the spirit world would operate on the laws of magicks. Things that happen with one world also influence what happens with the other world. So what is unsolvable in one world could be possible to solve in another.
In the real world, destruction of the environment is common and its inhabitants are dependent on science as a way of living. Wildlife is scarce except in a few untouched places. A large governing body controls research on new technology and the dissemination of it to the people. But recent increase in monsters resistant to technology has prompted the government to prioritize developing new weapons to combat them. However this has lead to further destruction of the environment.
Similarly in the spirit world, magickal pollution is threatening the balance of life. Wildlife mutations are common increasing monster population. A council with the most powerful of spirits at the helm, police and enforce rules in order to keep check magickal power. Magick usage increases magickal pollution, but only in small level. The sudden large increase in magickal pollution has left the council at a loss not knowing its source.
Actually, the cause of magickal pollution is the destruction of environment in the real world. And the increase of monster activity in the real world is brought about by the increase in magickal pollution in the spirit world. Both worlds influence each other. In the real world, more monsters mean more weapons meaning more destruction. In the spirit world, more destruction means more magickal pollution and more monsters. Creating a cycle that will eventually lead to both worlds ruin.
I haven’t worked out exactly how everything works, I’m just shooting out a concept here.
Not everyone may agree with this take on duality, but I think most of us would like the duality scheme.
@whiteferro I actually like the idea behind the duality scheme and its especially prevalent as some of us may have witnessed in Final Fantasy XIII. It can represent a number of things (pretty much a motif) such as establish a demarcation between types of gameplay and cultural beliefs.
– whoops — hit Submit. In ’08, I was thinking of the exact same idea of the ‘Laws of Science’ clashing with ‘Laws of Nature/Magic’ theme, but I was put off when I saw Avatar and Final Fantasy XIII doing it. Not because I was striving for originality (since everything has guaranteed to have been done it’s a matter of presentation), but the themes weren’t generally far from one another.
oh hey, i actually haven’t seen avatar and haven’t played ffxiii yet. lolz. I didn’t know such a concept was used recently.
I really like your idea as well, whiteferrero. Especially how the destruction in the Real world is affecting the magical one, hence the Earth Spirit waking up to stop this.
And about Avatar and FF13, its similar idea but not the same as what you’re saying. Both of those dualities in those worlds were more like 2 sides in the same world, not seperate. In Avatar, its just between the jungle and the human settlement. And for FF13, its about the same as Avatar except imagine the human mechanical settlement is shaped like a planet and is floating OVER the jungle.
@Kobracon, For me, it was more about the symbolism: Human/Mechanical versus Organic substance or Nature which I can still relate to Magic vs Nature (perhaps Destiny). While they are both in one world, the player or viewer can delineate them and still compare them to the duality theme. Duality can represent different types of settings and situations, where spiritual and real world is connoted all the time so it’s not just those two stringent devices. Depending on the subject, it’s fairly easy to draw similarities between certain settings and themes.
I cannot remember the exact story of Avatar, but when Jake began to use his Avatar, it was a demarcation in my head. His Avatar is a representation of duality: being able to move freely without any repercussions until awaken compared to his paraplegic situation back at the base.It’s essentially him living a dream as an Avatar. Plenty of other examples and perspectives to choose from.
In Final Fantasy XIII, the whole party are l’Cie, making them essentially enemies of destiny. Destiny itself is split in two of course; either becoming a solitary crystal in a deep slumber or Cie’th with no sensibility and salvation. I wouldn’t say the main aspect is an emphasis on separation all the time (especially physically), but the ability to draw subtleties between subjects and its separation.
wow. I really don’t think too deeply about symbolisms and stuff. I just go out there and enjoy the world that is shown to me. But I guess in this video game age we do need sense of originality. Then I guess we have to present this in a way that separates it from the rest.
We could begin by presenting nature as the evil. We’d take the bad side of nature and exemplify it in the spirit world. “The strong shall live and the weak shall die”, in it’s most extreme case. The spirit world shall also be ruled by a temperamental king/queen congruent with nature’s sudden natural disasters.
And then in contrast, the real world and technology and humans in the best possible way. Humans are compassionate and use only what is needed. Technology is used to save and improve lives not take and destroy. This world is what can only be defined as utopia.
When the two worlds meet, the spirit world naturally just exerts its power over the the utopian world in a violent take over. Pressed and with no other alternatives, the utopian world begins to develop weapons in order to combat this threat. Sparking the cycle that would destroy the two worlds.
The theme is still balance and co-being. What we’re trying to overthrow is the theme of “the strong” and replace it with “something to do with living in harmony with each other.” Since our hero is already “the strong” I would like to reiterate my previous idea where the ES can choose to give some of his elemental powers to the humans, making him weaker, but gaining companions in return.
I like the foray against the ‘Survival of the Fittest’. I’m going to introduce what I’ve been thinking of (Note: This isn’t in tandem with Kobracon’s proposal. It’s actually some thoughts I’ve had since the beginning of the seminar):
Here are some ideas that aren’t organized (disregard the generic nomenclature:
• Magisterium (active)
– An empire more along the lines of a thalassocracy. Magisterium was once part of an alliance with other countries, but severed all relations due to conflicting tenets. A magic paling was erected when other cities began to establish a strong foundation in magic and using eidolons at their disposal.
– Coercion was used to claim cities and countries.
– Its setting is a mix between both industrial and modern architecture, except steam-engines aren’t used. An eidolon powers the country by producing crystal stacks in the sea. It is also the eidolon that is responsible for producing the magic paling over Magisterium. When bioluminescent organisms surface at night, seaplanes are sent out to siphon the condensed energy of those crystal stacks produced.
– Only one type of (public) transportation: Trains. It’s the primary reason seaplanes are very iconic in Magisterium.
There’s more, but I’d rather not go on without the consideration of people in the seminar. I have two other countries which piece together the background of the world. Magisterium is one of several though.
Ahhh. I love a city near the sea. I can see this is already a mix of science and magic in one society as well. Something like a city in FFXII comes to mind. However we have still yet to solve the problem on how to present this in a way that’s fresh and original.
I don’t want to keep forcing my ideas but the Magisterium concept could be the ideal city in the previous ideas mentioned. It is one where science and magic coexist. Meh, i don’t know…
@Falsate: Wow. That idea could have honestly passed for a new FF or something. I espeacially like the whole “powered by an Eidolon” concept of the city. Although that idea DOES sound somewhat close to FF13′s Fal’cies…
@whiteferrero: Thats the big question isn’t it? How to make all this seem unique and original…
IMO, I find the symbolism route much more common in todays games. You don’t see alot of games with 2 actual parallel worlds that coincide with each other like PoP:WW’s past and present or Folklores real and ghost realm. To me, thats duality that I would go for. Hence, why I really liked your initial idea, whiteferrero.
@Kobracon, If you strip all the terms, you’ll find the concept to be similar. It is the purpose/symbolism that defines and determines the nuances of both ideas. The similarity just happens to be energy/power.
There’s a lot running deeper to it, but I want to hear the opinions of those following the seminar. I just say it as it comes to my head with little regards to what’s been done because it’s bound to change and it can sometimes hinder a person’s progression.
What if the world was really flat?
In two sides of the coin-like world, exists two very different civilizations. Like this,
Duality World 1
——————-
Duality World 2
The two worlds need to be in perfect balance or the world goes tilted. Of course something happens that would upset the balance. (For me, I’d rather have our protagonist be the cause of the upset.)
Scenario 1: So everything in the worlds slides over to the edge and falls. The protagonist wakes up in an empty world left with naught but a sliver of what was keeping the worlds balanced before. With the power of that sliver the protagonist restores the worlds piece by piece. And in order for it not to happen again, magically bolt stuff to the ground. Sometimes you have to purposely make the world tilted in order to reach new locations. Sometimes you have to pass back and forth between the two worlds. A set-up like this is certainly different where you have the power to move the world itself.
Scenario 2: Is the same as my previous statements regarding a science world, and a spirit world. As the two worlds meet each other, the spirit world tries to take over the science world. Weight is transferred from the spirit world to the other making the world off balance. The world’s self-defense mechanism kicks in causing magickal pollution in the spirit world in a desperate effort to keep the weight the same. However this causes the spirit world to get more aggressive in their take-over.
Personally I think the 1st one offer a lot of creativity in the gameplay area. While the second one is a better fit for a classic story rpg.
I like that it’s well detailed and composed. Scenario 1′s world falling into a singularity due to imbalance and [the main character] ends up on the ‘other side’ (just throwing that out there). A sliver? As in like a small crystal or artifact used for manipulation and restoration?
I can already imagine Scenario #1 working out nicely. A quick glimpse came to mind involving World #1 experiencing a massive quake and collapsing into a singularity (or even sliding into a singularity). It does leave a lot open for gameplay if it involves manipulation of various parameters like Time and Space (e.g. Teleport between both worlds and reverse time if a mistake is made). I’ve always liked games giving its players that type of freedom.
It would be nice to see vestiges about in the ‘second’ world (similar to a post-apocalyptic setting, but not insofar to appear – entirely – desolate).
I’m not entirely sure, but I’m just responding with what’s on my mind.
rather than time and space. I’m thinking more of just the power to tilt the world. and to bolt the stuff in the world into place.
@Whiteferrero: I really like Scenario 1. Its original, and has the potential to have some really interesting and fun gameplay. Although it may be a little hard to play a serious story off of that. The scenario would fit perfectly for a lighthearted plot what with all the tilting worlds and bolting stuff to the ground and I see nothing wrong in that. Trying to force a person to take something like “the world is literally flat” may be the wrong direction with a premise like this. Just putting it out there.
@whiteferrero: Not that it should be time and space, but giving an example of some games that define the powers of the main character specifically. ‘Tilt’ just seemed a little broad to me and I’m at a lost on the connection here.
I can go for the lighthearted plot as well. Many times I prefer that than overtones because it usually ends up misguided.
Hahaha. I know right. It sounds lighthearted indeed. The art style would most likely be something like Paper Mario. It doesn’t really fit into all of our discussions right? I tried to be very original but it did get too far out there. hahaha.
I’ll try to think up something different for a presentation that can be taken more seriously. :D
@Whiteferrero: Well hold on, no one said the game HAD to be serious right? Its a discussion, anything can go. There are games that can balance lighthearted and serious stuff. Like Tales of the Abyss, it had a serious story, but bright colours (and those hilarious skits XD).
true that. for me I guess that would be the first Disgaea. It was really lighthearted but touching at the same time.
I think we are doing a great job here even if we haven’t compiled this into one. The ideas we’re generating seems to be something we are all content with.