Late to the seminar? Catch up, here.
As the proposed ideas become increasingly more complex, it’s increasingly difficult to discern which ideas should be incorporated into the document itself. Whilst the discussion has been fascinating – and I can’t stress that enough – I have a simple request: please, if possible, relate the topic of discussion with the seminar itself. Are you discussing the merits of open world design? That’s excellent – just be sure to mention how this might be consolidated with the existing blueprint.
Otherwise, thanks. Everybody has been superb. Let’s continue.
Member ‘Kobracon’ suggested that the protagonist should be an Earth Spirit: “Being the spirit of the earth, she (well in my head its a she at least) would have access to all the elements (wind, water, fire, etc) and I imagined her utilizing them in combat by sort of ‘becoming’ said elements with her body.”
He then developed the concept, giving an example: “For example, you could turn to fire and shoot some fireballs from a far, and while the enemy is staggered, you could instantly turn to wind form and zoom straight to the enemy and wail on it followed by an uppercut in Earth form…”
Member ‘PrinceHeir’, as requested, explained, demonstrated, and iterated upon the Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops recruitment mechanic: “I think we can improve this system by adding a negotiating system. I think the Shin Megami Tensei games uses this.” He then further elaborated: “We can negotiate to NPC to join them in your group, they can refuse it depending on the stat of your character? Kind of like in Persona 3, you need a certain amount of stats to be able to get an acquaintance.”
At this point, we’ve seemingly established a vague plot outline – submitted by ‘Kobracon‘ – and one of the game’s ‘looking for group’ mechanics.
Here’s some questions I would like everybody to answer:
- It’s apparent that it’s to be an ’open world’, but is it in the vein of Fallout 3, Final Fantasy VII, or Metroid Prime?
- In this world, as with the latter example, will the player be restricted to particular areas until certain abilities are acquired?
- Will the combat be similar to the likes of Eternal Sonata and Tales of Vesperia?
Again, as the ideas become increasingly more complex, please try to be more concise. So, if possible, each comment should specify the following: the idea (narrative, mechanic, etc); how it will be utilized in our game; and an example of this mechanic used elsewhere.
Of course, additional commentary – much like what you’ve already contributed – is encouraged. Please include this subsequent to the format above.
Others to have made epic contributions now, and in previous seminars, will not have their submissions abandoned. Once the core elements of the game have been established with this new format, I will refer back to prior seminars.
Keep up the good work, designers.
So far an open world more like Metroid seems good. And a big yes to the second question BUT maybe in the form of the way the new Prince of Persia did it. I.E having 2 or three options each time a new power is unlocked. And since this is an RPG, perhaps the order could influence multiple endings? Gamers these days want more bang for their buck and good replayability, done well, is usually a good answer.
As for the combat……neither? Coz (to me) those game’s battle systems require a party of 3 or 4 to be a fully fun and balanced fight and I doubt we can come up with ‘allies’ for the earth spirit without being desperate or cheesy. I was thinking more of an action RPG like Rogue Galaxy but more combo heavy. Basically a combat system that involves only one char.
Also, its just me (sorry PrinceHeir) but i’m not really warming up to the recruiting allies option. I mean…..how will that work in this sense?
In retrospect I may be focusing on MY idea a wee bit much. Apologies to everyone if I seem somewhat selfish :P
The Open World should be similar to the structure of Final Fantasy VII/Dragon Quest VIII if I were asked, but far more vast between major areas. Recently, I’ve been playing Lufia II and its system uses Special Items that allow access to certain areas in a level (Example: Having a hook to zip your way across an obstacle or gap).
To get further into other areas of the world in this game should require Abilities/Skills/Spells (Example: A type of spell that is used both inside and outside combat. Outside of combat, a spell straightforward spell by the name of Rune could unlock Magic Barriers that impedes players. Intrinsic Abilities like Jump and Agility have to be upgraded in order to reach much higher platforms (or move swiftly enough to evade traps/obstacles). It would function similar to a few platformers that use this same mechanic, but on a larger scale.
On the matter of the Recruiting Allies, a gameplay element like that would have to fit in with both Design and Narrative. We’d be better off attempting to tie abilities with the character as they experience development through the plot, but we haven’t even discussed the story yet.
The Earth Spirit (strictly speaking on part of the Game Mechanics) sounds variegated and desirable. It’s a great way to include a multitude of gameplay styles while avoiding repetitive or mild variations. The only part I don’t agree on is the supposed plot behind it because it sounds cliché or trite rather (Spirits and Magic Elements). I don’t mean to come off as curt, but I guess we haven’t touched upon the story equally.
In response to the combat system revolving around one character, it all depends. I’m thinking it can revolve around one character, but implement ways in controlling the others or using symbolic mechanics. For instance, our character would have Runes surrounding him that connect to his allies. We use these runes as a symbol of conveying battle instructions to our characters. If this is confusing then I can explain through using a diagram.
For me, I think it would interesting indeed having the main character as an earth spirit (ES from hereon). And this is an idea I’d like to build on. And I’ve got an idea to mix in the recruitment option as well.
How about a narrative where the Main character has a distrust of humans because of what happened to the earth, i think it is the most natural setting. However, to put a twist on it, to be able to put a stop to the destruction, ES goes around trying to take over the world! Along the way, ES encounters many kinds of people, some of them good. This is where the recruitment process comes in, I think ES should start with all the element powers already, but can choose to fight solo (w/ all ES powers) or imbue a power on an individual (thereby weakening ES) but have a companion to fight with. Choosing either route can change the game experience dramatically. Fighting solo would probably make it easier to manage battles, but it also means no one will resurrect you if you die. Some battles may be easier solo, some may be easier as a group. If we have field puzzles related to the powers, then solo and group puzzles can mean different schemes for each. Doing this changes the game experience drastically!
As far as battles go, I’m thinking more of a Vesperia and Kingdom Hearts mix where battles are initiated upon contact or so, but instead of the usual top view of the Tales series, we go with a frontal view with the camera behind the character you’re controlling.
In terms of the open world scheme, did you mean that you can choose the route where you want to go? Like in Fallout? or just a big overworld map like in FF?
Route-wise, I think we can go with a free choice type world, where the difficulty would scale upon triggering certain flags or enemy level goes up w/ your level, or maybe finishing a story arc set in an area somewhere. Kinda like DQVII’s story mechanic where each area has a seperate story arc, but an overarching theme across all. One large story arc per element sounds like the perfect way. Less characters, but more development is the way to go for me.
And in this set-up, I think a field world like in FF12 where the maps really come alive is best best way to bring about the essence of the environment-ish plot. While I’m touching on the plot, I just want to say that cliches can be good, but it has go deeper than the usual. And since it looks kind of like an environment-ish theme, it should be noted that players don’t want a preachy game.
Whew. What do you guys think about this? Especially on the going solo or as a group choice?
Nice. Cool twist on the allies thing. I kinda had an idea like that, but it was more on the lines of each element having a seperate entity and personality (Fire is aggressive, water is kind, etc) and sorta joining with your idea, whiteferrero, perhaps when an element is imbued into an ally, the personality of the element kind of takes over the person in order to fight whatever that can actually hurt an ES. (coz face it, if its something like guns or machines, its gonna be weird that they can hurt a spirit)
Sorta like how Silmeria takes over the Princesses body in order to fight in Valjyrie Profile 2. On that note, what do think of making the main character a human female that sorta gets FORCED to BE the ES? It could add more tools to make the plot. Like she doesn’t want all the responsibilty yada yada, and the all the elements in her are at odds and don’t usually agree with one another.
@whiteferrero
I’ll address the World Map and Combat ideas since this seminar is entirely focused on that rather than the story. It is a great idea to understand the narrative and tie them together, but we’d need a completely seminar to sort out our ideas. A preachy/didactic game is annoying, but if they’re simply trying to touch upon moral relativism and shades of gray then I see nothing wrong.
The World Map like FFXII was exactly my vision except with the obstacles impeding on progression to certain areas due to abilities and such. A vast world map in the spirit of FFXII would be fitting for a game that is looking to focus on action-RPG/real-time elements. I like games that incorporate the Party and utilize them for puzzles too. Then again, Party Members sometimes come along with micromanagement and I wouldn’t be too sure about the comfort of that.
@Falsate: Then perhaps something like Elika from Prince of Persia to reduce the micromanagement? i.e having specific spots (or power plates in PoP) where that party member’s ability would help the ES traverse, but obviously not as obvious as said power plates from PoP. Some form of visual cue that tells the player you need this guy or that guy to get through.
Hello everyone !
First, I must say that falsate has a good idea. Learn skills and then be able to apply them in the game. Basic skills (climbing trees and walls, jumping, etc.).You should have 4 different categories. (Attack, defense, magic, special skills) Special skills: jump, climb, swim? who knows. And when you gain exp. by fighting, then you are able to apply the points to this different branches of skills and level-up your Powers. something like that is what you mean?
I also prefer open world like in FF7 or T of V. with a lot of towns. and you go looking for allies to join your cause. No More Than 4 characters, in my opinion.
About restricted areas: there are several ways to enabled. Example:1) you need to reach a certain level to enabled the area (like you learn swim and now you can reach that island or you must be level 30 to enter this arear).2) someone asked you to go there and look for something or do something.
The battle system is more complicated. I like turn-based battles. I understand that this is slow for these times we live. But I like to use all my characters and know That I am the one who decides if i use magic or attack. with turn-based battles I feel that all my deciciones have a consequence. But it is a matter of taste. The other day I read a little about a WII RPG “The Last Story” and it seems they managed to do Both, I dont know how it works but apparently you can decide if you control one of your characters and the battle is on real time or you can take your time and decide what to do with each other and then run your deciciones. I should Wait Until the game comes out and see how it works.
Also i have some ideas for a story. Is complex and long to tell it-through here. Maybe with more time i can write and send by e-mail to adam. if adam wants to read the story of course.
I wouldn’t mind turn-based at all actually, as long as when it IS a character’s turn, its alot more than just hitting the attack command. Something more action-y. Not to completely copy Eternal Sonata but a system that is as fast as that while still being turn based (again much like how Eternal Sonata is)
I understand what you say. You you want a game with more freedom of movement when you got the character selected. like Resonance of Fate ??
Hey, you can e-mail me at adam@gematsu.com with your ideas. I’ll then do my best to condense them, and include them in the seminar somehow :)
Hey guys, I’ll have the next seminar up within a few days.