A recent issue of Game Developer magazine sat down with Final Fantasy XIII‘s Motomu Toriyama and Akihiko Maeda to talk development of the role-playing game. In their extensive interview, the pair reveals that Square-Enix had initially set up “focus groups” for Final Fantasy XIII, however “knew it would be too late to implement most of the feedback from the player test sessions.”
In our first Discussionist feature, which we’ll begin doing weekly, we want you, our beloved community, to take a crack at the fate of Final Fantasy XIII. Was it a success? Was it a failure? What went wrong? What new concepts did the team introduce that put the game at fault? What new concepts made the game more enjoyable? What should’ve been different? Was the game worthy of the Final Fantasy name?
You’re all a bunch of smart dudes and dudettes. Let’s hear what you’ve got.
The game was way too linear. I expected big towns to explore with people to talk to and lots of hidden places that could be discovered. I got none of that in FF13. Also the story i personally thought started off really slow, but picked up and i really enjoyed the ending. Battle system was overall good, i like the paradigm system, but at the same time miss when one person would only have one class. Cause i mean honestly who would use hope (someone who is strong in magic and healing) as a commando. I do have one complaint, while having to direct control over characters movements, i found it frustrating how the characters would be too close to each other and get hit by certain attacks, i have a sentintel to take the blows while my other 2 guys do some attacking. But lighting just has to backflip into a friggin blizzaga spell or hope is standing too close to the sentinel and gets blasted by thundaga or watever, it was very frustrating. Graphics were great and voice acting was good too, i didnt have any problems with vanilles voice. And Leona Lewis’s song was beautiful. My verdict is that FF13 was a mix of success and failure. I honestly cant decide, because i expected much more from a final fantasy game. Square-enix has said that HD towns were too hard to make, obviously they havent seen the work on Blue Dragon, Tales of Vesperia, and Lost Odyssey. There’s no excuses this late in the current gen consoles. VS13 better deliver, square’s really losing their stride.
For a normal game it was a success but as a FF successor it kinda failed. The game was too linear and there was NO TOWNS and no one to talk or shop. The game is more engaging when you have towns you can go to and talk to people. And find shops to buy items. Yeah the graphics was gorgeous but it was annoying if you could only walk 1 way from chapters 1-11 or 12 i forgot.
Towns are irrelevant and don’t need to be thrown in to simply ‘maintain’ the tradition of Final Fantasy. If it bears no relevance to the Game Design or Story, then I usually see it was some superfluous inclusion appealing to the nostalgic bunch.
People seem to forget that there’s nothing guaranteed at the end of the day regarding FINAL FANTASY other than its staples linking one another. It’s apparent that they intend to deviate from the common prevalence of elements witnessed in the SNES/PSX titles which is baffling why many seem to be surprised.
FFXIII needed towns as much as FPS’s need guns in them. Limiting the player was one thing FFXIII got wrong on so many levels. And the game design or that POS “story” this game had werent worth, the exclusion of many things, especially towns, which help with the story. But instead they using a Datalog, what a joke that was.
FFXIII had a “good” plot but not “great”, too many original Final Fantasy elements were excluded leaving the game very empty giving it no real replay value, overall the most dispointing Final Fantasy game on a playstation console to date. The battle system although unique was still a let down, all they would of needed to do to fix it would be to have full control of the main character being able to move and dodge / block would of been an excellent improvement. I still have high hopes for FFXIII Versus and any other installments in the future.
FFXIII was the biggest letdown for me in this generation. This game was so bad on many levels, from limiting the player, the game being able to play itself, the horrible story telling method they chose, the fking datalog, etc etc etc.
How many sales did it make? And was it what they were expecting?
As sad as it is, generally these days, sales are more important than fans.
That’ll be their yardstick, not whether their fans liked it or not.
Now this may shock you, but I think its a success as an FF game. So what if it had no towns? It gave us a new and exciting battle system, yet ANOTHER amazing world with its own fleshed out history and intriguing culture, along with Summons, chocobos, a Cid who owns an Airship, Ultima weapons, secret ‘harder than the last boss’ bosses and everything I could POSSIBLY want in a Final Fantasy game.
Sure the first half was pretty linear, but after the open world TRIPE that FF12 was, I’ll take anything NOT set in the Tactics universe. FF12 was the biggest letdown off an FF in my book coz it was the first mainstream FF to NOT feature a whole new world, creatures and races. All we got was a fancy looking Tactics game without the grids and Judge rules. We had the same summons, same races and all. Its more a flashy expansion than a main FF game.
This on the otherhand, I am very much proud to say that I have played and enjoyed every bit of it. (Voices not so much, but hey, ppl have called me a japanophile so……………..) So yes, FF13 DID succeed at breaking the mold and being different, yet keeping the Final Fantasy feel that we all know and love.
i understand these are your opinions but to say FF 12 was horrible and giving FF 13 a higher praise it sounds like your following the 4 ever long band wagon of lames that hate it for no reason. FF 12 was in my opinion a step in the right direction it had a open world map that was missing in 13 it had towns yea the summons were lame but i damn for sure that FF 13 summons were no damn better i mean seriously they were transformers the grid board was nice it let you favor which abilitys you wanted to use not like 13 were you are forced to get every ability not to mention it was pointless upgrading because nothing truly changed my and the battle system i mean i like FF 13 battle system as well don’t get me wrong not to mention the cast was interesting it was more mature and i would hang with them over FF 13 cast any day and ivalice was a epic setting i loved the FF tactics advance games there the only tactics game i will play my only flaws with FF 12 was that Vaan didn’t hook up with that princess.
Some excellent comments already here, so it’s going to be hard for me to keep original, but here goes.
Was it a success or was it a failure?
While I do not know what the sales figures are for FFXIII, it is safe to say it did relatively well at retail seeing things such as brand recognition and hype at work. As for whether it is a success from a players’ perspective remains subjective. I know from myself that it was not as life-changing as I thought it would be – indeed, far from it. Of couese, from a technical standpoint the game is definately successful (ignoring for a second the limitations such as linearity), for graphically it looks stunning and runs smoothly. I would not go as far as calling the game a failure, but without knowing SE’s own expecations and ambitions, it is hard to say whether they view it as so. One thing it definately failed to do was ignite such a universal acclaim as earlier titles in the series (ignoring obvious bias), with even the dedicated fanbase being very much torn between it.
What went wrong?
As mentioned above, SE said that making HD towns and open environments was overly difficult and would have taken too long. This is, in my opinion, the essence of the “mistake”. The glaring fault with the game, personally speaking, was it’s overly linear design. Now, this is strange coming from me – someone who usually shakes his head at those who bemoan “linearity” with a yell of “if the game is fun, why should you care less?”. However, in this case, that element of fun is sometimes missing.
The game is almost Newtonian in design; that is, it is a straight path that can not be deviated from and cannot be travelled back upon. This made traversing the world a bit of a non-event, you felt disconnected, like you always wanted to reach out and touch (explore), but never could. For me too, there was far too much emphasis on ‘random’ encounters and fast paced combat. This is not usually a problem, I like a bit of heart stopping action. However, fighting literally one long battle after another, walking for 5 seconds and repeating gets old – fast.
This is another concept which was definately a mistake. As echoed in the many comments before me – the lack of ‘Final Fantasy’ trappings. You can almost understand and forgive the lack of towns; but what of the lack of victory music, of traditional shops (you don’t need towns for them, see the traveling salesman in FFX etc), and a general lack of FF mythos and feeling (this is subjective but something I definately felt at times).
SE seems to have been trying to change the game, and it is not always a good idea to do so. FF is a long running, much loved series which does not warrant a change of face for a “new” gamer. I am also unsure of whether SE were looking at Westernization, but if they were, again this is a mistake. Japanese development should remain in essence “Japanese”.
What new concepts made the game more enjoyable?
The game, for me, not as enjoyable as previous FF games. That said, the fast paced, ‘no time to stop’ gameplay did add an element of intensity and speed which was not encountered in earlier titles. But is that what FF is about? I beg to disagree. That said, I fully enjoyed the music, storyline and characters of the game, with Lightning and Snow being in my opinion brilliant characters. Today, the option of replaying the game is based entirely on being wanting to experience that “FF on speed” design and to simply enjoying Lightning and co’s stories once more. There was little else (you may argue that this is enough, and I do agree in prinicple).
What should’ve been different?
Lots. For a start, just because this was Final Fantasy for the HD generation does not mean it needed to be flashy and vain to the extent it lost it’s identity. As I said before, FF is a huge franchise, it has many fans who love it for what it is, and are not asking for mega-changes.
One thing I really think should have been done differently is the pacing. The game needed to slow down, a principle usually employed in the towns and cities in previous games. It needed that – it needed more interaction with the world and more time to stop and ponder. As it was, if you stopped to admire the world around you, it sometimes felt almost wrong, you were constantly being ushered forward and forward, and not enouraged to think or admire. In previous games, you become immersed in the world, the villages with lives and stories of their own, the lush woodlands and differing landscapes. Here, it felt too sterile – too clean, with only the ‘Sunleth Waterspace’ evoking such feeling within me.
Another difference should have been the capped levelling system. I didn’t like (though I had no such issues with it in Lost Odyssey and similar). But here, it felt intentionally restricting, like the “RPG” of the game was been dumbed down. I see nothing wrong with a standard levelling up system, or even something like FFX”s Sphere Grid if they wanted no “numbers” attached.
Also, the story, while one of the main draws imo, was still not exactly perfect. I should have been told (or even hinted at) what a L’Cie or Fal’Cie was before jumping right into dealing with them. I know this sounds like a cop-out, and I know you could read the enclyopedia in game, but still. I won’t complain too much here though, as I did think the story was a strong point, and when read into (something I love to do), it has far more depth and interesting points than many forum discussions would merit it. (Though I will say this – there was very little as emotionally moving as the dreams in Lost Odssey and similar, and I am someone who enjoys a tearjerking plot like nothing else)
Was the game worthy of the Final Fantasy name?
This is a difficult, and ultimate question. Firstly, there are always going to be fans who claim that games are not “worthy” of their title. This is usually fanboy fluff, and I always simply ignore it. But with FFXIII, the game IS different, and SE were clearly trying to make it so. That is not to say that is not worthy of the name, but I think that, knowing you bear such a honorable name as “Final Fantasy” should have given SE more motivation. It was and is a great game, but it does not feel in the same gene-pool as games like VII, IX or even XII in some regards.
In conclusion, I would say that FF is a success and failure in equal measure. Personally, I did not find some of the things to be “annoying” that many people claimed to (Vanille for example, I liked her.). But that said, it begun to grate on me, something a FF has never done before. At times, it was even boring, a chore. But then, just as I was going to turn it off and play somethign else, a cutscene or change of location would pop up and re-focus my attention towards it. So, really, it was a mixed bag.
I remain to have high hopes for VXIII and may even go back sometime and replay FFXIII. It was a good game, but you know, I never thought Id say this in 2010 – but it IS NOT my GOTY!
The staples were present as Kobracon said. XIII follows the mythos of FNC, but retains the traditional FF mythology as well.
If the game made profit and reached their expected sales, it’s a success. Like it or not, this is a business.
As for Versus XIII, I can’t see how anyone could hold high hopes when much of what has been shown is vaporware and sweet talk (dark and tragic, etc.,)
Damn, sorry Sal I never realised my post was so long. A bit of a ramble I think (got carried away)
Wow….and here I thought mine was long XD
While I respect your opinion TezChi, but besides anything to do with towns and the Victory fanfare (something the new DS game lacks as well mind) , what exactly was missing from the FF mythos in FF13? We had chocobos, long and flashy looking summons (not to mention old favourites like Odin, Shiva, Bahamut, etc), a Cid on an airship, Ultima weapons and hard secret bosses. What else is missing? Honestly, those were enough to make this ‘feel’ like an FF game to me. Perhaps its down to preference again, but I would like to hear your thoughts on this.
FF 13 is one of the best games EVER MADE. & some of the best art direction out there. There’s nothing more to say…
FFXIII… i loved its lush environment. its wonderful character design. the battle system ( i call it the “X button mashing system” heh. for i always use the auto ) was.. unique. and its lastly, its story. for me, it was great. i loved how it made me care for the characters in the story. i really liked how it ended. ( i still play the game sometime just to see Lightning smile to be honest :] )
so yea, for me, id have to say that FFXIII was a success.
The game was both a success and a failure in my opinion. It was a success because that’s simply a great game. But Final Fantasy audience always anticipate quite old-tyle jRPG game, so it was a failure to satisfy some series fans – as it strayed very far from the original concept.
I loved it though. The story gets really nice after not-so-great beginning. Graphics are amazing, music is quite good. Nothing bad there i guess. It’s just not the same as old FF games.
(First, I’m back after some pc troubles.)
I think it really depends on what one considers a success.
If its common feedback from players on the internet, then the game was most likely a failure. (Of course so much of the negative feedback was people who never played the game jumping on the bandwagon.)
I enjoyed the game, played it and even got the platinum trophy on PS3. I think the changes shocked players. They went away from the usual formula and long time fans had a hard time coping with it.
Instead of doing what the typically do with Dragon Quest, they removed and changed mechanics in the game, things some players consider a staple of the FF series.
The biggest change was the pacing of the story, controlling what path players took for so long was a questionable decision. The freedom aspect is something rpgs do best, and Final Fantasy is supposed to be the best at it. If players stayed patient with the game, they got that freedom, they just had to wait longer than ever before.
In some ways all FF games are like this, you can’t go to this place because you need an airship or something, etc. The creators obviously wanted players to be sucked in by the story and characters, and they maybe tried to hard by limiting exploration.
I think if the casual player got a chance to play FF 13 with a save towards the end of the game, on pulse, where they could explore. They would be impressed, and have lots of fun. So many were just unwilling to play long enough to get the chance.
I enjoyed the game, so I could give all sorts of positives on a technical level or whatever, instead of that, I’ll just touch on something I personally loved about the game.
The character design was very good. I’ve been playing the series since I was young, and for a series where sexy female characters seem to always be a focal point, 13 has the best yet, hands down. The battle system was well thought out, and very addicting once you got the hang of it, and like most of 13, it only improved as you advanced in the game.
If I had one thing to criticize 13 about, it would be the villains. I like my rpgs to have very compelling bad guys, I also like them to focus on the bad guys just as much as the good guys.
Funny thing about the open world part is that almost every demonstration I’ve seen of 13 before it was released was all in Pulse. Perhaps Squeenix hyped fans a little too much in the wrong way by showing the free roam part that only appears roughly halfway through the game….
It never failed, dont even put that word there boy.
Thing is, there are alot of kids who like online and such so they will discriminate FFXIII
Other thing they say is linearity, LOL the chapter 11 huge map makes for it.
Now the characters, the visuals, the world, and nice on going story is amazing, gets easily 9 out of 10 from me.
IThe game was successful by all standards. From the very first section of the beginning and you have officially entered into the world of Final Fantasy is full of imagination and magic, good and evil .. Why not interrelated figures collected by the story of a beautiful and wonderful style of play and develop characters and new fighting system. And forgotten film footage, which is characterized Atalma this series. Changed the concepts of many people with this Part and of course I am of them. In Final Fantasy 13 Amgarat and markets, but there is the Yellow Bird (Alchukobo). And of course keep this part of the classic Final Fantasy-known, although it changed in one thing only. The main character is a girl not a boy, as in the beginning of the previous versions of Final Fantasy 7 +8 +9 +10 +11 +12 +14 because we have seen (Claude + Sikowal + Zidane + Thaddeus + van. The only drawback was the fishing tasks. Elongating which was annoying and boring so you are when you accept any job hunting should know where the beast was originally, and then go to catch (Long does not have a place to voice) a fundamental change was in the way or to move the style of the development of characters and which resembled the by far the Final Fantasy 10 +12. monsters call should come their way for the former normal. meaning that you get from competitions or funds does not enter with them in battle and must Kmalk to be effective and powerful offensive and defensive, not to be defensive players. because the players already have the capacity Megolhm strong and they have armor and protect, speed and Dwbat magic strong Kavpp species ( Fire + Ice + thunder + water + land + holy). As for what I want to see in the future of Final Fantasy is the fact the dream of my life. that Tqdrna and care about us Sony, especially Squirains. and allocate our Arabic language in the device first, and also within the games. In conclusion is Part 13 of the chain that bears the slogan Squirains.